Bear Canisters/Food Handling in the Sierra

[Brian Galliano]

Last year i barrowed a bear vault from the Saufley's! it was so bulky it almost ruined my 4200 cubic inch Pack! i sent it back when i got to Lone Pine! i didn't miss it! With all of the Snow i never saw one Ranger except down in Yosemite Valley! Be careful there! They'll know your a thru-hiker! I watched a thru-hiker get asked for his thru-hiker permit there. I may take one this year but am looking for a smaller type just too avoid a possible 5000 dollar fine. Its mostly the average weekend camper who gets raided by bears! if more people practiced Jardine;s method of not eating where you sleep and vice versa it wouldn't be a problem! But then you might not ever see a bear! I saw one last year! I talked to GQ near the Canadian Border and he'd seen 21! So you really don't know! They're there! But whether its unaffraid? After leaving Shelter Cove I camped out near Eggman, and some wheekend campers at N. Rosary lake! I'd gootten there late, everyone was a sleep! So I flopped down about a hundred yards from somebody's tent! In the morning I realilized I was sleeping directly beneath there bear bag strung up in a tree!! I was using my food as a pillow! LOL! I got outta there early! Sorry for the long read!

[markv]

This last reply would be no big deal if only the hiker was in danger. But this is the kind of hiker that screws over bears. Please don't follow his example.

[Brian Galliano]

What kind of hiker am I again? Mark? How did you figure it out? That incident happened in a non-required area in Oregon. ! It is my belief that Generaly There are almost no Bears when Its a high snow year in the Sierra! At least not up high where the PCT is! A bear cannister isn't really needed in my opinion! Its really not needed! I don't expect people to follow any example you claim I am setting! example? This is a forum for people to discuss there thoughts, stories and ideas! If you don't agree fine! But don;t sit there like an obtuse prick and judge what kind of hiker YOU think I am! Obviously you havn't a clue about anyone except your self! H.Y.O.H.

[Brian Galliano]

Furthermore, I do carry bear strength pepper spray if i need to detur ole blackie from my food! It's one thing to judge what kind of hiker you think some one is for your self! But to sit there and formulate the opinion of others about someone you never met is a pretty inaccurate accessment of what kind of hiker i am, and an uncool way to get your point accross! I took it as a peronell attack and this behavior should be agaist site policy! You little Dweeb!

[markv]

Thanks for all the name-calling. Your dropping off the bear canister in Lone PIne and not carrying it in the High Sierra is irresponsible, so i think it's necessary someone point that out. I don't mind being the one to take the crap for it.

There are plenty of bears in the High Sierra among the snows in high snow years. It's inexperienced to think otherwise. I have a friend who was doing like you, in early season in the snows, who had a bear literally pull, with its mouth, her food from under her head while she was asleep. My short post was to point out that this decision puts everyone else in danger, especially the bears. The behavior you're professing is the kind that habituates bears to campsites in the first place, leading to all sorts of problems.

It's not a problem on most of the PCT, and sleeping with your food is of course fine most of the time. Not in the High Sierra.

I don't care to get in a debate on the matter. All you have to do is some light reading or research into the matter to see what the truth is. I just worry that people will read a post like that and think they too can just say "oh heck i'm not going to bring a canister". It's a horrible problem in the High Sierra. The rules about canisters aren't stupid, beaurocratic rules like some rules can be. These canister rules are important. Just follow them.

[Brian Galliano]

I didn't realilize I'd wrote that about Lone Pine til you mentioned it! Before I take this debate any further I need to make a correction! I had sent my Bear cannister To Lone Pine from the Saufleys, is what I meant! I then Sent it home from Mammoth Lakes! I went with out a cannister for about 50 miles of required area. However it was the highest snow year in 52 years. Also it is quite very possible to hike from bear box to bear box( Metal Bear proof Bins ) in the Parks where cannisters are required! During my 2011 hike I used them frequently. You won't ackknowledge that I did have Pepper spray either! Just because the law says that bear cans are the only legal option, does not mean that there are not any other viable methods for protecting our food, or as you put it protecting the bear! The only problem bears are park bears! I don't think that its neccessary to demand long distance hikers who are mearly breezing through to carry these over priced bulky contraptions all because some weekend Sierra club hikers can't keep a clean camp site! Bear Cannisters do not keep the bears from smelling your food! It only keeps them from getting to it! With proper training pepper spray in my opnion is just of an effective method as a cannister against problem bears, at least for thru-hikers who don't plan on hanging out long!
You tell me its a major problem but you have no hard evidence! Its all just book worm here say Sierra club hype! When was the last PCT hiker bear incident! When was the last bear incident in the Sierra period?>? Why don't you tell me when this happened to your friend! What year, what location did she have the food snatched from under her hear!?? Where's the link to her journal entry for us to see for our selves! Instead you sit there and hide anonymously behind your computer, in your anonymous Big City and insult other hikers who are actually out there hiking and mingling with the locals whom many of have a different point of view! You Prance around with your little "Savin' the bear cape' on as you insult hikers you never met and make accusations. Perhaps if YOU did some light reading on the subject you would discover that Blackie (Ursus Americanus) is not a threatened species! No dude! They are not endangered! Hello? They are widely hunted through out the country. When I worked for Fed Ex in Santa Barbara I had to deliver Bear Jerkey to this one address 3 times a week! There are resturaunts where you can order black bear bozo.
As far as the name calling goes! Well a negative remark will almost always receive a negative response! Obviously which is what you wanted or you certainly would have worded your opnion on the matter in a more constructive, mature, and less insulting way! I love bears just as much as the next guy. So I'm done arguing with you and your orthodoxed opnion. Have fun sitting at home trying to cause drama on your favorite web site! Your the only one here who screws bears! Oh, and ummmm I meant that literally. Hee hee !

[altathunder]

Children please.... Bears have problems ALL OVER the sierra, yosemite, lake tahoe, donner summit, sierra buttes, all the way to lassen, then its the cascades, but the bears dont check the regs or understand boundrys, there range is vast and fueled by food and rage(like me). You must understand that for years problem bears have been relocated all over, I think the budget stopped that, but lets at least talk about obeying the law, otherwise is conspiracy, and downright foolish. Smart lawbeakers are quiet, but thats as rare as respect on websites.......I see bears all the time, its just the way it is, and how about the backpackers who have had there packs ripped off there backs and killed, oh those were 5 or so miles off the pct, so I guess its not a pct stat, my bad, please excuse my non pct view. Stay legal, or thru hikes will become extinct, and I will be mad as a bear on steriods with the taste of blood(just joking.....).

[gg-man]

Brian,
It is perfectly legal to use the bear boxes instead of canisters in the southern Sierra. Also, even with the snow I saw I bear near woods creek bridge near may 19th so they were still out. Hope everything is going well with you, maybe I'll see you out on the east coast trails.

Malto

[markv]

I've already stated my "hard evidence". If knowing people who have had unprotected food taken from their tents and under their heads isn't enough for you, nothing will be. And bear spray to protect food at night is an utter joke. Really, your whole stance is an utter joke. Grade A Internet Turkey.

I'll state it again, and probably will several more times since it's important that people know this from this thread:

Bear Canisters are required in the High Sierra for a very good reason. Bears do, often, at all elevations, find camper food and they go after it. Then the people are endangered and the bear is eventually relocated or shot. Just carry the canister for those ~200 miles of the PCT. Save a bear, take care of yourself. The canisters weight 2 lbs. After hiking 700 miles, you can handle 2 extra lbs. for that short distance. It's worth it, and it's the law.

p.s. I never said that bears were an endangered species, and that's not the issue. And i checked my friend's journal from 2008 so you could read about it. She, wisely, very conveniently stops journaling for the days in early June when this happened. She knew that what she did was illegal, she was liable for being fined, and felt pretty guilty about the whole thing. So of course she didn't leave it posted up on an online journal. But it was 2008 in the vicinity of Island Pass. My own bear encounters happened in the vicinity of Ruby Lake and Glen Aulin, and i've known firsthand people who have been visited by bears at night just below Forrester Pass, in Vidette Meadow, and all throughout Yosemite. Those are just the firsthand incidents i know about. These bear visits happen every year, every summer month, all up and down the PCT in the High Sierra. I'm sure you could find incident reports somewhere if you think i'm full of it.

[Brian Galliano]

Well, I suppose I should appreciate your concern for the American Black Bear. I do feel your tactics need some work though! Also I reluctantly agree that the law IS the law ( for now anyways) and because of the large fines, and the fact I'd rather not have to depend on hiking bear Box to bear box every night, I went ahead an got a Bear can on E-bay! I got the Bare Boxer! Its small, but I can get enough food in it to go some distance! It is an accepted model, how ever they did discontinue the production of this particular one and only make the Contender and I think another bulky model. Well, they're all bulky! HAha!
Pepper spray surely can't hurt to carry! Most containers are quite small and could be a formadable defense against not just cereal' killer bears, but also rabid possums, rampage bulls, or even a pack of wild dogs, or un-wanted skunk or a rascally racoon! Keep in mind it will not keep them pesky skeeterz away!

[Julianne]

Yeah, I hate the weight and size of the bear canister. BUT... I prefer to carry it and not be responsible for the death of a bear. That is the bottom line... you can say you are willing to take a chance on your own life/limb/health. Sure. You are willing to accept responsibility for yourself. But, are you willing to accept the responsibility for the death of a bear? or how about the health/life/limb of the next hiker who meets up with the bear that you fed? Not carrying a canister is just selfish and short sighted. You might very well get away with it. Fine, but is it worth the risk? The bummer is you might never know that it was you that caused someone's face to get ripped off or that bear to get euthanized. Hike your own hike does not mean hike irresponsibly or selfishly. If rules change and ursacks are allowed it would be because they are found to be effective. So far, no go. I'd love to lighten the load, but....

[coronan]

What is the opinion of the Bear locker spacing between Whitney and Vermillion?
It looks like there are tons of lockers in the popular areas like Rae Lakes. And Cans are not required in the more remote areas like Evolution Valley.

Does the Kings Canyon Locker System work?

Thanks!

[Miner]

I don't like relying on the bear lockers. Because it limits where you can camp (ie. limits you daily mileage when you could easily hiker farther or forces you to hike farther than you'd like) and they tend to be in places bears frequent. I found the distance between them to be inconvenient for what my body actually wanted to hike. Also, I've seen them full as some hikers put all their gear in them instead of just their food. A real pain when there is a lot of people around as the lockers tend to be in popular campsites. I prefer to visit popular places during the day and camp away from them at night as I don't normally see bears in my camp as a result in the first place. Just take a bear can and enjoy the freedom of being able to camp wherever you want and enjoy the double use of a camp stool. But your opinion may vary.

[Beerbear]

Bear Canisters really are not that bad. They help you keep your food organized, food trash separate from your gear, double as a chair, a table, and the weight cost of doing the right thing isn't that audacious. As has been mentioned, its not just about your safety, or the individual bear. Its inflaming a species problem that is well known to those of us who have grown up in bear country. Do what you can to minimize the issue and follow the rules of the trail. That being said, its a free country, but I will look down on you with judgemental derision should you not comply...

[Snowmann]

For input from those of you using bear vaults, two questions: Where do you store it - how far from your tent? And, if a bear finds it, does he take it? Is it GONE! in the morning?

And, what do you do with you empty food packages? Are you putting those back into the vault for the night?

Thanks.

Snowmann